Living in the Heart: An interview with Drunvalo Melchizedek


We’ve seen the peace protestors and those advocating the liberation of Iraq. Two sides, both of whom believe they’re right, in vocal opposition. And who can say which one is right? Drunvalo Melchizedek, known for his books and teachings on The Flower of Life, sacred geometry and the merkaba fields around the human body, says his new work takes the guesswork out of our world of polarities by allowing us to create within a field of absolute harmony.

“This new work has been going on for about the last three and a half, four years,” he said in a phone interview from his office in Arizona. “Prior to that time, what most of the world knows my work from are the books called The Flower of Life about sacred geometry and the electromagnetic fields around the human body that are 55, 60 feet across in diameter (merkaba). This new work is about the human heart and a sacred space inside of the heart.

“Initially, it looks different than the merkaha fields and the light body fields, but in the end, this all leads to the connecting of these two spaces together, the mind and the heart.”

Drunvalo will be in the Twin Cities on June 22 to present “Conscious Co-Creation: Our Path to World Peace,” an introduction to a powerful process called Living in the Heart. The event, sponsored by Drunvalo’s online community and website Spirit of Ma’at and The EDGE Newspaper, will be from 10 a.m. to 6 p.m. at Sofitel Minneapolis, 5601 W. 78th St., Bloomington.

What follows is an interview with Drunvalo on Living in the Heart and how it relates the world we live in today.

Does accessing that space within the human heart require knowledge of your earlier work with the merkaba?
Drunvalo Melchizedek: No, it doesn’t. People have found that space all over the world with many, many different meditation techniques and disciplines, and so there are lots of ways to find it, to get there. Definitely, what I’m doing is not the only way, but the way that I’ve been taught is through the indigenous tribes around the world. They’ve been teaching me for a long time, 20 years. Eventually one of them just said, “Well, here it is. Here’s how you do it.” That changed everything.

It was the Kogi, a tribe living high up in the mountains of Colombia, who gave me the direct experience. It first began with the Ahoriginals in Australia. They were the ones that were trying to teach me, but I didn’t know what the heck they were talking about. And then the leader of the Maori Indians in New Zealand showed me more about this than the Aboriginals did, but I still didn’t understand. And then there were many other tribes around the world that showed me a little bit more, a little bit more, until finally the Kogis just gave me direct experience. And at that point, I understood.

There’s really no way to really understand this except to do it, because it falls outside of normal human consciousness completely. It doesn’t even appear to be related. Whereas the mind is polarized, it has a left and a right side and sees everything as polarized, as either good or bad or neutral, and where everything in the mind is based on thoughts and logic, this is not. This is pure feminine energy. It doesn’t even know what polarity is, because when you’re in there you can’t see polarity. Everything is whole, complete and perfect as it is. There’s nothing “wrong.” Everything is exactly the way it’s supposed to be and it’s not based on thoughts and logic. It’s based on dreaming and feelings and emotions.

Thus the “dreamtime” of the Aboriginals?
Drunvalo: Exactly. We have no idea of that in the Western world. I mean, we have absolutely no idea how powerful and what this is. We think that we’ve got a pretty good handle on the reality side, through our science and our way of perceiving things. But, the dreamtime is so incredible — if you want to call it the dreamtime.

This is literally a space in the heart. There’s an actual physical opening inside the heart. Then, inside of that space is another space. It’s a smaller one. It’s a tiny space inside. It’s usually only maybe four, five, six feet around and the vibration goes up about an octave when you step into that space. And it’s in that space that the dreamtime is accessed and where all the phenomenal things that some of the tribes talk about are accessed.

That space and they all agree on this — is older than creation itself. It’s before the Big Bang, before anything was it existed, and all life, everywhere, is intimately connected through that space no matter where it is or what is looks like or where it came from. It’s all connected. So, that’s why the Aboriginals can have an experience and then other people can go into the dreamtime and relive that experience. It’s not like watching a move, because you’re actually there and you’re reliving it in real 3-D time. It’s amazing.

I was sitting in Mexico when I was learning this from the Kogi and they made this sound and put me into my heart. Instantaneously, I was in Colombia standing with a group of old men in white robes. I was actually there, physically, really sitting there – and it was pretty mind-blowing! Then they would come up to me and make another sound and bam! I would be somewhere else, but somewhere just as real as this reality. No difference at all.

The past, present and future are spherical in dreamtime. It’s not linear. The polarized mind sees time as past, present, future. It’s sees space as x, y and z. It sees everything as broken up into these three components, but dreamtime doesn’t. It sees it spherically. Everything’s happening at once, at all levels — past, present and future, and all of what they call the parallel worlds or all the potential possibilities. It’s seen.

What one experiences can he passed directly to anyone else. Further, when two people are in that space consciously, no matter where they are in the universe or anywhere on the planet, they can trade bodies. They can actually step out in the other person’s hod. It seems to have a time limit and I don’t know if it really i1ees, but it did for me when I experienced this. You can actually walk out into another person’s body and you’re actually in that person’s body and feeling what they feel. Switching hack seems to happen automatically. Where all this leads to and what it all means, I’m just beginning to understand.

So you were put into this space with a sound initially?
Drunvalo: There’s a language. This sound is an experience the Kogi call a language that has no words. In other words, the sounds come out of the body and they produce images inside the spirit of the person. And if the images are really complete, it’s not just an image but a reality. You’re there, wherever it is.

But, that same exact sound said a moment later will produce an entirely different image. So, it isn’t like a word has a particular meaning.

I don’t really understand what it’s based on. I’ve tried to figure it out and 1 haven’t. But, it goes back to the Bible, where in there it says that before the Tower of Babel there was one language and that one language the whole world knew and that that language allowed all people to speak to each other and even animals. Remember, it said that in there that they could talk to animals. But, science has never found that language. They’ve looked and looked and looked, but there’s not a trace, because it is not a written language.

It’s a language that everybody knows. In fact, you know it intimately right now, only at the moment you just have it blocked. But, everybody knows this language.

This language appears to be coming back now, and in that return, as I see it, it would break of the spell of Babylon, of the separation of people by different languages. Eventually, we are going to remember the one language. It allows us to communicate with each other, not only with animals, but bacteria and trees and everything, because from the dreamtime place everything is alive: even rocks are alive, anything that has a mass is alive. So, it’s something that we have forgotten, but have not lost. You can’t lose it. You couldn’t exist without it, from the way the Kogi and aboriginals look at it. You could not be here if you didn’t have it within you, if you didn’t have that sacred space inside of you.

The interesting thing about it is that there is a direct connection from within the heart to the outer world. I’ve taught about 4,000 people now and I’ve listened to their stories, without programming them or anything, just listened to their stories of what they found when they went in there. Almost inevitably, people will discover that the stars are inside of their heart. The same stars, not different ones, the same planets, the same everything that’s out there. And then, if they wrap it back around, which sometimes they don’t do, they’ll realize that the planet is inside the heart space when you get in there, just as it is outside here.

I have just written a book on this — Living in the Heart: A Journey into the Sacred Space of the Human Heart — which will be out in about two months. Right after I finished this, somebody sent me a little quote from the Upanishads that I had never read. When I read that quote, I could hardly believe it.

Here’s what it says:

“If someone says to you, ‘In the fortified city of the imperishable, our body, there is a lotus arid in this lotus a tiny space. What does it contain that one should desire to know?’ You must reply, ‘As vast as the space without is, the tiny space within your heart Heaven and Earth are found in it; Fire arid Air, Sun and Moon, Lightning and the Constellations Whatever belongs to you here below and all that doesn’t all this is gathered in that tiny space within your heart.'”

That is exactly what I found — and so have thousands of other people. The same world can be viewed and seen and sensed by going within your heart as it can by going within your mind.

I’ve talked to Gregg Braden and a lot of other people who are involved in manifestation and prayer, about the techniques of prayer, like what Gregg Braden wrote about in The Isaiah Effect about focusing your attention and your intention and then having to feel it in your mind and your heart, emotionally, and in your body, in order to create a miracle. But, there’s a problem with that. The creating instrument is the mind, which is polarized. What we’re describing, and Gregg is also coming up to the same conclusions with me, that whenever you pray, such as if you pray for world peace along with billions of other people, the problem is that no matter how pure your intention is, you will always create the polarity. So you will create a world that is partly is war and partly in peace. You’ll get both sides the dark and the light. This even works even if you’re a black magician and you’re trying to do something negative. You’re going to get the equal positive side. You always will create it because the instrument itself is polarized.

But, you can go into your heart and create form within the tiny space within your heart and, though the creation process is entirely different, it’s not based on thoughts and logic, but based on dreaming and emotions. This will create what the intention is, but without the dark side.

Light in the heart has an interesting phenomenon. When you look at this world from here, now, light has shadows because light comes from a source. But, the same light inside the heart, which I’ve spent so much time looking at and so have other people, has no shadow because the light appears to come from everywhere. And it does the same thing when you create form there. There’s no polarity so it doesn’t create the opposite of what you’re trying to create.

My teachers are saying that this is one of our greatest lessons that we have to remember if we’re ever going to get out of this problem that we’re in, not only with war, but socially and environmentally and everything that is being destroyed. We need to begin to live and create within our hearts rather than live and create from our minds.

In your workshop, do you offer people a key to remembering this?
Drunvalo: The workshop I’ll be giving in Minneapolis is only an introduction. It’s one day long. In reality, I’m only going to probably get a few people, maybe up to 30 percent, who will, in that length of time, be able to actually get there and experience it. Most of them will not be able to experience it in that short of time. It takes more like about three to four days of training, so this is just an introduction. There will be some people who will come out of there with their lives changed, and others will walk out of there not understanding what it was about at all. Because you can talk about it all you want, as we are, but without the direct experience, it doesn’t mean a lot.

So you’re offering other workshops where you have more time to go deeper with this process?
Drunvalo: We have a three-day Living in the Heart workshop [see listings at]. I developed this much longer workshop so I could solve some of the problems of why people couldn’t get into that space. One of the reasons is because people have had emotional disturbances and traumas in their life. If you have had these, especially ones around love, divorce, especially the children, you can find the heart space, but you go in there and it awakens that pain. You feel it and then just jump back out: “No way, I’m not going in there!” And so, to solve that I spend one full day working on healing the heart chakra. In doing that, I can get nearly 100 percent of people into that heart space. In Germany recently, I had 180 people and only six of them couldn’t find their way in there.

I imagine you’ll have a big demand for this.
Drunvalo: The demand is very high. It has been from the beginning. The demand for the other workshops, such as the advanced level of the merkaba workshop, is also very high, and so I’m trying to balance those two things. I’m just one person, and I can’t reach this demand.

The thing is with the merkaba training is that it’s very, very complex and needs to he taught in very specific ways, because you’re dealing with the mind, but with the heart meditation, I’m encouraging people to begin to teach this or take it out to the world, because you can’t misuse it. You’re in the heart or you’re not, and if you’re in the heart you’re not going to misuse this. You would never dream from that space of ever doing anything that would do harm. In fact, the heart wouldn’t let you anyway. So, I’m not worried about people taking this information and begin to teach it. In fact, I want them to.

So, if they’ve moved through the three or four days in the longer workshop on Living in the Heart and they’ve been in that space, are they able to reproduce it on their own after that?
Drunvalo: Yes, almost all of them. We teach you how to get back there very quickly. It takes almost a full day to get you there, but once you’re there and you’ve experienced it, it’s like riding a bike; once you get it you can get back there very easily.

There’s a constant vibration in the space inside the heart kind of like Om, but it’s a little different – and slightly different for each person. But, that vibration can be used once you’ve felt it and you know what it is. You can use that vibration to find the space very quickly. The Kogi can talk using their own language in normal ways or, in a matter of two or three seconds, they can switch and go into the heart and begin to communicate in another way totally.

Do you think this process will be a centerpiece of our collective shift, like into the fifth dimension. It sounds like it would be.
Drunvalo: I’m absolutely convinced. I believe this will be a necessary step for all of us to eventually remember this space within our heart, from which we will be able to find all the answers to everything without resistance; everything, including answers to problems with the environment and everything. We could solve all the problems. We just dream a new dream.

Do you think that this process that you’re teaching will eventually come faster and maybe simultaneously to people when it reaches critical mass.
Drunvalo: I’m dreaming that dream right now.

That would be nice.
Drunvalo: Remember the heart. It is supposed to be in control of the mind. That’s the way it was supposed to happen. It got inverted over the other way when we fell out of creation. It’s not normal and it has caused a lot of problems. As you can see, our world is dying.

It’s not always easy to remain in a very good space, with all the conspiracy theorists talking about the powerful and elite taking over the world and how some view President Bush as a model for that.
Drunvalo: Well, there are conspiracy theories and there are lots of them, such as the stuff David Icke has said. These things are real, but so what? There’s another level of what’s going on here in the world that’s much greater and also real. When we get into that level of our heart, and love begins to guide the way instead of self-interest, then we will find the answers and we will find the way out of all these problems and Bush himself will crumble just as Saddam’s crumbling now, because that isn’t the way that’s going to prevail. What’s going to prevail is the heart. It’s stronger. Its more powerful.

But, it’s all about timing. I was just in the Yucatan with Hunhatz Men (a shaman and elder) and the Mayans doing ceremony there for two, two and a half weeks. They talked about this war. I sat down and spoke personally with Hunhatz Men about it, and he said what the Mayan calendar predicts is that the war with Saddam was inevitable. He said it absolutely was going to happen, hut how long it would last depended on when it started. If it started before April 1, he said it will he over really fast and he over with and there’ll be very little problems. If it started after April 1, between then and November, it would become the biggest third world war and most of the world would be destroyed.

What day did it start?
Drunvalo: It started in March, so from what they’re saying, it would be over with very quickly. But, on another level, they’re saying that all of this way of living from the mind is just about over and we’re in that process of the mind dying and the heart beginning to be the way we perceive our one reality and live and make our decisions.

I’m sure you’ve probably been following what’s going on with children around the world known as the Super Psychic kids who are able to see without their hands.
Drunvalo: Those kids are going into their heart space. That’s what they’re doing and this is how they can know anything. From within your heart, you can know anything. Absolutely anything at all. You could know the most complicated calculus problem and instantaneously come-up with a perfect answer without ever knowing how you got there. They’re doing that in China. These kids are being given calculus problems that takes computers 15 or 20 minutes to figure out and the kids just write the answer out immediately.

When you go into that little space in the heart, whatever question you ask or whatever you want to know just appears. I’ve done a lot of research with these kids and they’re 100 percent perfect. They never, ever make an error. They can look at you or even a picture of you and tell you everything your name, address, phone numher, Social Security number, date of birth, and date of death also. 1 hey know every disease you’ve had, all the children you’ve got, the names and address and phone numbers and on and on and on. They can just know anything. And, so can anybody. You go into the space.

What’s interesting about this is that the mind creates with thoughts and logic, but it sees with light. The heart creates with the emotions and feelings and dreaming, but it sees with darkness. This is why all these psychic kids wrap things around their eyes so they don’t have any light coming in at all. It makes it easier. So, I do the same thing in my workshops. We have blindfolds so that you go into darkness, because it is much, much easier to find this place and to get into realizing what it is.

The good news is that the government cannot exploit these kids who work through the heart?
Drunvalo: They’re working through their hearts, but the government might find a way.

I’ve read about the kids in China and how the government may be using them.
Drunvalo: Yes, they were using them as spies — and they could be used as spies. That’s probably the only way they could. They can know anything. I sat before the National Academy of Sciences in Moscow, Russia. They have the same information. They use a similar form of connecting in the heart and they’re able to go into any computer in the world and download the contents onto a disc that’s just sitting on a table in front of them. They can even go into your mind, according to them, and, if you don’t know how to protect yourself, and know everything that you know.

Even they realized that they can’t use this information in an offensive way to do harm, because the people rapidly lose the ability to do it if they try. So, as long as their outcome or their purpose is for the greater good of all life, the heart allows it to keep going. It’s an amazing thing, it truly is.

And there are more of us than not who are seeking that, right? I mean, seeking happiness within ourselves?
Drunvalo: Well, I’m in 60 countries and we have 500 teachers, so I have gone somewhere every three weeks in the world for the last 20 years and I have talked to people all over the world and I’ve looked into their hearts and I’ve looked to what they really want. And it’s the same everywhere. I don’t care where you go or how suppressed the country may seem. When you’re face-to-face with just the person, they want the same thing. They don’t want the world to be controlled by all this stuff. They want a clean planet. They want their kids to be happy. They want love. They want their basic needs attended to just like everybody else and they don’t want the way the world is moving right now. Nobody does. That’s really clear to me. There’s no doubt. They don’t know what to do. They don’t know how to change it.

From what all my indigenous teachers are telling me, as long as we continue to try to solve the problems from within the mind, we’re just going to create more problems.

More polarity on every issue.
Drunvalo: Yeah. Every time we go in with the best of intentions. We go, “OK, I really want to pray for peace.” But, we keep creating more darkness at the same time and the thing gets more and more complex because we’re living from the mind.

So the answer is not the peace protests that we have seen.
Drunvalo: Gregg Braden and I both are sitting there going, “Well, what do we do then?” On one level it’s becoming clear. It’s more like Taoist philosophies: It’s not about what you do, it’s about being. It’s about a state of consciousness or state of awareness of being where you’re residing within your heart and everything begins to change without actually doing anything. And so, I’ve acknowledged from my indigenous teachers to keep putting this out into the world. They believe this is the only answer.

If we go into our hearts, then we begin to dream a new world that doesn’t have the same kinds of problems that we now have. The heart knows exactly what to do without you having to think about it. You don’t sit in there and think, “Well, OK, I want to change the Iraqi war.” It’s about just being, in a state of balance within your heart. And as people begin to do that, the dream begins to gather and it begins to change everything. A huge portion of the indigenous people of the world, their leaders, their shamans, their medicine men are doing just this: waiting for us to wake up and remember who we are, why we came here and to no longer function just from our minds, but to let our hearts gain control.

One of the last experiences I had in writing all of this — and now beginning to understand the direction this is leaning to — was when I was sitting in my tiny space in the heart and at the same time I was in my merkaba field. The is space began to fill with white light and it kept filling until I was blinded. I couldn’t see anything. And then when the light went away, it was a similar experience to a kundalini experience, the feeling in the body. And when that went away, I was above the planet moving very quickly in my merkaba and the tonal fields of the heart.

The Merkaba the body produces is produced from the heart, not in the mind, and it’s in the shape of a torus, or a donut, and it’s about 8 to 10 feet in diameter. The axis of that torus, which would be like if you put a donut on the ground, is flat and runs right alongside of the axis of the spine, which is where the axis of the merkaba or the light body is. But they’re separated by three or four inches, because the heart is off center.

In this experience, which the indigenous people say they were waiting for me to have, the energy field of the heart aligned with the energy field of the Merkaba and they linked together. From that moment on. I’m in my heart space all the time. I’m in it right now. I’m consciously in it. I’m aware that I’ve linked the inner space of the heart and the outer space of this world. So I can see through the eyes of the mind, but my heart space is governing what words are being said and what is happening in my outer world. I’m no longer being controlled by my thoughts like I had been. It’s an interesting experience.

There’s one thing you have to understand: It really doesn’t have anything to do with me. This is just a phenomenon. I’m being used. There are others that they are using to try to reach us, to try to change us so that we can remember. So, I’m doing my best to find ways to reach people so they can have that experience and so that they can go out and show their families and other people how to have that experience and where it leads to.

I wrote down these words: “The Gathering Dream.”
Drunvalo: That’s kind of what it is. The dream is getting stronger and stronger and I think there’s going to come a day when we all are just jumping up and down with joy.

I’ve always envisioned that underneath the chaos of the world, there is a wave of love coming that would eventually be like a Tsunami, just overflowing everything with love.
Drunvalo: Well, there’s more… and that would be something I could go on for a long time about. The inner Earth and the inner beings have a lot to do with this, because they are functioning totally from within their heart space. We’re an experiment. We tried coming out from our hearts to live through our minds. It’s not bad that we have done that. It’s not even wrong. It’s just we tried it and it doesn’t work real well.

And we’ll evolve out of it.
Drunvalo: It’s OK to do this. It’s even okay to have the technology. It’s just that we have to align our hearts with our minds and then we know exactly what to do and what not to do.

Well, the key is to be aware that something’s not working.
Drunvalo: So, there it is.

For more information on Drunvalo Melchizedek, visit

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Tim Miejan
Tim Miejan is a writer who served as former editor and publisher of The Edge for twenty-five years. Contact him at [email protected].


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